Check out Dana Carey. He isn't afraid to slam a drum head really hard. Its amazing how appropriate and good the sound is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAlcvIcjFI4
Tool rocks.
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A cutting edge and smelly think tank that must be reckoned with
Actually, that link was over dubbed. It isnt the real sound of what he is playing. This is a more accurate one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbFrl9wLBA&feature=related
ReplyDeleteIf you want to have a good time. Drink a few beers, put on some headphones, and watch this with an open and fun mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJAfbiRX7s
ReplyDeleteWatch other videos of Tool's with Aliens and shit. Its fun.
Tool does "rock". I have Tool on my I-pod and even like a couple of their songs. But yet at the same time I realize that their music is primitive and is destructive to the mind and soul. The Danny Carey credits Satan for his music and is a follower of the cult. So there are other influences at work.
ReplyDeleteRead "The Closing of The American Mind" by Allan Bloom to take a critical look at some our favorite past times and our culture. This is far more of a "rocking" than this primitive beat that imitates the beat of sexual intercourse" and the jumping around with head banging like a primitive African tribe. Check out Plato's take on music. "The family spiritual void has left the field open to rock music..." "Marxist certainly do see that rock music dissovles the beliefs and morals necessary for liberal society and would approve of it for that alone."
Most of modern music, to include rock music, is just another part of the destruction of our free society. Check out what the leading message is running throughout most of music.
I was expecting to see Dana Carvey from SNL's Wayne's World, and I see Dana Carey instead. Dang.
ReplyDeleteGood drumming to a rocking song. He did what he needed to do with a certain amount of flash thrown in. I'm kind of surprised he didn't take on a more challenging (drumming-wise) Tool song though.
So, Jeff, where do you classify Kentucky bluegrass, or say Pipe & Drum Corps? You can get pretty damn rockin' in those songs too! Are they bad for you?
And some people would say that certain kinds of Jazz are approaching Classical music levels of art. Is that bad for you?
There certainly are ridiculously, morally & intellectually retarded, bad lyrics in many pop/rock/rap/blues/jazz songs. What about Country? Is that bad? There certainly are retarded, bad lyrics in Country too. There are songs where you are more stupid after you hear it than before. There are also beautiful lyrics, even in some rocking songs (OK, I may be just making that up, I guess I'll have to back that up somehow!).
And if you want to hold up Classical music as a model, uhm, take a good look at the story lines in a lot of those operas.
Though your argument seems good on the surface, it is easy to find holes in it and exceptions.
Music has probably been around longer than the wheel and if not then damn close. Are you telling me that all the sudden in the 20/21st century this crazy rock and rap music has come around and it is evil? Get real.
ReplyDeleteIt may have socialist themes from time to time. Maybe even the majority of the time...and?
I love rock, my dad loves rock, and most of my friends love rock. Luckily we aren't retarded and don't do what the crazy guy with the mohawk tells us. The only people that actually become fixated on this shit and live by its creed are the useful idiots that were retarded from the get go. If pop music hadn't come along and told them to vote for Obama then some other medium would have come along and done it anyway.
We have to weigh the opportunity cost of having rock and not having rock. I think the benefits out weigh costs. A couple more hippies are not so bad to deal with as long as I have Tool around.
I think both of you do not understand what I am trying to say. Maybe because you are going off of a very short comment. I might do a post but in order to make my point effectively, it would have to be very long and to cover philosophy.
ReplyDeleteI am not saying that all music is bad, to include all rock music. Bud-D is assuming that I don't like rock music and that I prefer country music. You are also oversimplifying my whole point by assuming that I am stating that rock music is "bad for you". This implies I am solely against it due to the fact that it is "immoral". It is much deeper than that. These are an incorrect characterization of what I am saying. So you are arguing against something I did not say, a straw man. Yeah, I don't listen to much music and when I do it is usually classical. I still listen to rock and other music but its luster and effects have diminished after looking at it from a different point of view. I usually listen to it to escape and to avoid feeling and thinking. (I have to be able to understand the lyrics and what they are saying before I can let my guard down and relax to a piece of music so monkeys talking and angels don't cut it.)
But rock music in general does have some bad themes and most of it represents a devolving of music and society in general.
On Toeface's comment, yeah music and culture has been around for a very long time. Music and culture is a reflection of the values and the condition of a society or people. These two things can also carrying messages that can help determine the direction a society goes. It is like government: just because one dislikes a certain form or type of government does not mean they are against any government. No one is saying that there should be no rock music. If there is a market for it then it will continue to exist. Rock music is both a cause and effect, one of many, of the deterioration of our society. I could say that you are brainwashed and unable to see that some of your most basic and deeply held believes, music, sex, the nature of truth are wrong. And you could say the same about me.
I can see from both of your arguments that rock music is something very personal to you, at least in your attempts to state that it is not such a bad thing. Read the book mentioned above. It might make you sad and smarter, the truth does that. It will make you think and it is always a good thing to take a step back and take a critical look at our most cherished pastimes or our culture in general. This is why I can say that our free Country is dead. Of course it will take Some of the pleasure out of listening to your music.
You might have been happier if you hadn't read it.
ReplyDeleteI think you are digging too deep. Your arguments may carry weight but I think if you make the argument that music is a cause and effect of the deterioration of society then you can make it about anything. And its only an opinion that society is deteriorating at all. If rock is a cause and effect then so is internet, tv, movies, magazines, majority of books, etc. I still would say that rock isnt that bad. Are we still publicly crucifying people or having criminals battle to the death for our own entertainment? In order to live in your perfect world we would have to live like mormons in our gated communities where the women cook and clean and wear those huge dresses that show zero skin.
There comes a point where you have to draw the line and stop pursuing radical beliefs. Just like cutting back government based on the principle that more government is bad. Well there comes a point where someone has to make a judgement call and say, "ok, enough cutting back. We can have just a little bit." So goes for your views on things in society having immoral affects on its people. If we kept cutting back on the "tools of satant" then we would be hermits with nothing but meatloaf to eat and Bible's to read. Nothing else.
Draw the line. After all, Jesus died for all of mankind. You're covered. Go and live a little.
Allan Bloom shared a lot of beliefs with Nietzsche. That could be a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteI'm OK with Nietzche and Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI do like many forms of Classical music, but it was developed purely by and for the upper-crust aristocracy. It never has been the music of The People in any country it has existed.
All countries, even European ones, had 'simpler' probably 'courser' folk music that most people listened to. But, if anything, it was the aristocracy that became decadent and worthless.
I haven't read Bloom's book, so can't comment on it directly, but I flat out reject the Classical-culture elevating, other music-Culture lowering argument. The point is self-contradicting just by looking at what happened to the people who primarily listened to it.
What I don't reject about what you say Jeff, is the need to be aware of what things are doing to our culture, and the vigilance you are showing is certainly worthwhile and relevent.
Jesus is cool. I never said there was anything wrong with him.
ReplyDeleteNietzsche is a curious person though. He didnt seem to agree with democracy.
I think music is more the effect than the cause.
ReplyDeleteI will not say what I have already said on your points Toetamm. From your comments you don't understand what I said. Maybe the fault lies with my inability to communicate. I am not saying that there needs to be a "holy war" against rock music due to its devious effects. And I would disagree with you version of a "perfect world". I am merely pointing out a fact by stating a different point of view and using some quotes. But the fact that you are so defensive about supporting rock music is interesting. I still like and listen to some rock, but I am man enough to take a critical look at it and see what its effects are. Sex is very pleasureable in the physical sense, but I also realize the effects that the over sexualization of our society and premarital sex and kids having sex at too young of an age to deal with it can have on society as a whole. I can be real about it. I believe in something but am willing to read arguments against it and take a critical look at it. Where does all of this lead to? That is the point I am making.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get that Bloom shared a lot of beliefs with Nietzsche? I am curious as to where you came to this conclusion? From what I know this is incorrect. From what I remember of the book Bloom quoted Nietzsche to show his influence, negative in Bloom's eyes, on culture etc. He does agree with some of his views. Like I would agree with Marx's belief that in order to bring a about the overthrow of capitalism you need to destroy or undermine the foundations of such a society such as "morals" and the traditional family that are necessary for such a society to exist. So I think he was correct, but I disagree with his motives. And you can't confuse the message with the messenger.
The interesting thing is to see what these philosophers believed and how their ideals shaped our modern day world by dismenating their message and influence through the medium of culture. From my current understanding, Nietzsche did a lot to destroy rational thought and the belief is absolute truth etc.
Bud-d's point about the aristrocracy is interesting and another subject. And "the Classical-culture elevating, other music-Culture lowering argument" is not the point made in the book. Music is like a gun. A gun is not a bad thing. It is bad people that do bad things with it. Music is just a medium through which culture can be disemenated and can be a reflection of a society. From what I know of Nietzsche is not such a cool guy.